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Shaan's Story20 October 2022

Shaan's Story: How I Made My First $1,000,000 By Age 31

5Frameworks
12Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Explainer· 1

Explainer20:00

Monkey Inferno: a tech billionaire's man cave funded by a birthday reminder site

Michael and Xochi Birch sold Bebo to AOL for around $850 million, owning roughly 70 percent, and afterwards Michael bought seven condos in San Francisco, knocked down the walls, and built a studio housing sixteen to eighteen engineers and one designer. The office included a bar, a ping pong and entertainment area, one preserved condo, one-way mirrored bathroom walls, old Macs as art and real art on the walls. Shaan's description was a tech billionaire's country club, or man cave. The economics were unglamorous: birthdayalarm.com, a subscription birthday reminder and card service charging roughly $10 to $14 a year, generated between two and three million dollars a year at near-total margin and funded roughly half the lab, with Birch putting in the rest as cash. Birch's only mandate was consumer software: no B2B, no physical world.

  • Bebo sold to AOL for around $850 million with the Birches owning roughly 70 percent.
  • Monkey Inferno was 16-18 engineers plus one designer across seven merged condos.
  • birthdayalarm.com made $2-3 million a year, almost all profit other than hosting.
  • The cash engine funded about half the lab; Birch funded the other half directly.
  • The mandate was consumer and software only, no B2B and nothing physical.

It made between two and three million dollars all profit almost other than hosting. And so that was the cash guy that funded the whole…

Shaan Puri · 27:00

You got to pick a lane and like we're pretty broad. Like it could be any idea, but of the lanes, let's do only consumer…

Shaan Puri · 27:30
#startup-studio#cash-engine#consumer#mandate

Story· 6

Story04:30

Working for the Indonesian coal baron who couldn't read or write

Out of Duke, Shaan took a $120,000 job in Indonesia working for a man he calls Kokos, a second-grade dropout who spoke almost no English and could neither read nor type. Four assistants sat in his office with giant screens displaying his inbox, reading emails aloud while he paced and dictated replies. His business was a deliberate arbitrage: US majors like ExxonMobil, BP and ConocoPhillips wanted Indonesian coal rights, but the auction process was captured locally, so he bribed officials to secure the leases himself. He bought roughly $2 million of coal rights and sold the pieces at around $20 million each, amassing about $500 million in three years. Shaan's job was to be the English speaker who ran the presentations. Kokos was later jailed and died in prison of cancer.

  • Kokos amassed roughly $500 million in three years from a $2 million position in coal leases.
  • He was functionally illiterate and ran his entire inbox through four assistants reading aloud.
  • He refused to test the coal himself, reasoning that the buyers would test it and testing only added risk.
  • He held everything through 72 shell companies tracked in one woman's filing cabinet.
  • Shaan's read: he was bold and willing to cheat, but playing by the unspoken street rules of that market.

He bought up for $2 million total this huge amount of coal and then he sold each piece for 20 million. And he amassed $500…

Shaan Puri · 05:30

He was just bold and willing to cheat and lie and steal. And he wasn't cheating, he was just playing a game. That's how business…

Shaan Puri · 06:30
#arbitrage#founder-story#emerging-markets#risk
Story11:30

The WordPress blog that did nothing for the sushi business and changed everything else

While running the sushi cloud kitchen, Shaan and his friends kept a WordPress blog they wrote largely for their own amusement, nominally to help the sushi business. It did not help the sushi business at all. What it did was convert anyone who found it into a supporter who decided these guys were good hustlers. Shaan's father mentioned it in passing to an Australian entrepreneur, Nathan Mitchell, who had just sold his family drilling company for around $450 million and was under a non-compete looking for his next thing. Mitchell read the blog, flew them to Australia, and hired them into a biotech venture on the explicit reasoning that his smart engineers would be too academic without hustlers alongside them.

  • The blog produced zero measurable benefit for the business it was supposedly serving.
  • Its actual function was signalling: readers concluded they were entertaining hustlers worth backing.
  • A $450 million exited founder read it and offered them jobs on that basis.
  • Mitchell's stated logic was that engineers alone would make the venture too academic.
  • This is the second time a billionaire effectively handed Shaan a playground to run.

It didn't help the sushi thing at all, but what it did do was anybody who found that really got behind us. They kind of…

Shaan Puri · 12:00

I got a bunch of like smart engineers, but this will be so academic unless we get some hustlers. You guys are hustlers. Join me…

Shaan Puri · 13:30
#content#personal-brand#serendipity#founder-story
Story13:30

The Stripe job he blew, and the $10-20 million it probably cost

Moving from Australia to Silicon Valley in early 2012, Shaan applied to exactly two places: Stripe, then around 30 employees, and Monkey Inferno. He believed Stripe would win because he was deep in Paul Graham essays and Y Combinator founder interviews and considered himself a bet-on-the-person investor. He never spoke to the founders. He had one interview, with a man named Ben, backed by the strongest possible warm introduction through a shared mentor, and he blew it. Running the numbers later, he estimates a biz dev manager seat at that stage would have vested out to roughly $10 to $20 million. Sam thinks Shaan specifically would have fit well there, contrary to the common response that he would have been fired.

  • Shaan applied to only two companies on arriving in Silicon Valley: Stripe and Monkey Inferno.
  • Stripe was roughly 30 people in early 2012.
  • He estimates the foregone equity at $10-20 million, with caveats about vesting and promotion.
  • His conviction came from Paul Graham essays and watching YC founder interviews, not from talking to the founders.
  • His counterfactual: less money, but a position from which he could do more.

So if I joined even as just like a biz dev manager or something like that I probably would have made like 10 or 20…

Shaan Puri · 14:00

I only applied to Stripe cuz I thought that was going to be a winner, but it still would have been lucky that it got…

Shaan Puri · 15:00
#career-bets#equity#counterfactual#silicon-valley
Story35:30

The high school Fortnite league that became the Twitch acquisition

After pivot upon pivot, Monkey Inferno landed on youth e-sports. The observation was that youth sports leagues are a large, well-established market with league dues, but there was no youth e-sports equivalent: only pros, no amateurs, despite more people playing Fortnite worldwide than played basketball. Reusing streaming and gaming technology they had already built, they shipped an app where any high schooler could sign up, form a team, invite friends, compete against other teams, get ranked and play tournaments, with everything streamed so it became a spectator sport. Six to nine months into that version it had roughly 10,000 to 25,000 active players and was the biggest e-sports league, though small in absolute terms. Amazon bought the company via Twitch and Shaan stayed two years.

  • The gap: youth sports leagues exist everywhere, youth e-sports did not.
  • More people played Fortnite worldwide than played basketball, yet only pro competition existed.
  • They reused existing streaming and gaming tech rather than building from scratch.
  • 10,000-25,000 active players within six to nine months, the biggest e-sports league at the time.
  • Streaming every match turned the product into a spectator sport.

There were more people that played Fortnite in the world than played basketball. And so we were like, that's crazy. This has more players, but…

Shaan Puri · 36:00

It was the biggest e-sports league, but it was small overall. It maybe had 10 to 25,000 players, active players at the time.

Shaan Puri · 36:30
#esports#product-market-fit#pivot#acquisition
Story1:09:30

Blab hit 4 million users and died of leaky retention

Four years into Monkey Inferno, Blab looked like the win. It was essentially what Clubhouse later became, it felt new and fresh rather than another Snapchat clone, it grew to 200,000 users quickly, then a million, and Founders Fund wanted to invest. Then growth flattened at around four million. Signups were still climbing, but retention had started merely okay and was getting worse and worse, so the product was leaking users as fast as it acquired them. Shaan's framing is that retention is the thing worth anything in a business and also the hardest thing to fix, because acquisition is cosmetic and coachable, like getting someone's number, while retention is fundamental, like whether they will marry you. They tried many fixes and nothing moved, because the real question was whether this was something people wanted to do all the time.

  • Blab reached 200,000 users quickly, then a million, then stalled around four million.
  • Founders Fund wanted to invest at the peak.
  • Signups kept rising while retention degraded, making the product structurally leaky.
  • Acquisition problems are cosmetic and fixable; retention problems are fundamental.
  • Notification spam cannot manufacture retention for a product people don't want habitually.

Retention is the thing that's worth anything in business. And retention is the thing that's also the hardest to solve.

Shaan Puri · 1:10:30

You can go get their number. But you can't make them date you. You can't make them marry you and that's what retention is. It's…

Shaan Puri · 1:11:00
#retention#growth#product-failure#metrics
Story1:11:30

Sam's biggest mistake: selling The Hustle before he believed his own maths

Sam started The Hustle intending to hit $100 million in revenue before year ten, and sold it in year four or five at around $20 million in annual sales, roughly on track. He could show the arithmetic to anyone: take a 10,000-person email list to five million, note that each advertising seller closes about $1.5 million a year, hire a hundred of them, and the numbers reach $100 million. People dismissed email as a hobby and Shaan himself told him to do Facebook video, Snapchat and Instagram instead. Sam's diagnosis is that he could convince everyone else but never entirely convinced himself, so when a decent offer arrived he took it to secure the bag. Morning Brew, a year older, is now around $80 million in sales, and its founder Austin has told Sam that The Hustle would have got there too, and would have been better positioned because it had subscription revenue.

  • Sam's original goal was $100 million in revenue before year ten; he sold at year four or five.
  • The Hustle was doing roughly $20 million in sales in the year it sold.
  • His model: grow the list to 5 million, each ad seller closes $1.5 million, hire 100 of them.
  • Morning Brew, a year older, is now around $80 million in sales.
  • Austin told Sam The Hustle would have got there, and better, because of subscription revenue.

I didn't truly believe my own prediction even though I knew this list lines up. I could tell everybody else but telling yourself in your…

Sam Parr · 1:12:30

I sold right when I got a pretty decent offer because I wanted to secure the bag but in reality I could have achieved my…

Sam Parr · 1:13:00
#exit-regret#newsletters#conviction#media

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway07:30

Shaan's dad was a top-five world expert and made a thousandth of what his boss did

Shaan's father spent thirty years at BP and was, by his own estimate, one of the top five global experts in a specific technology for extracting value from low-grade coal. Kokos knew essentially nothing about coal. Shaan's dad put it to him directly: I know more about this than you and I have made $100,000 to $200,000 a year my whole career, and you will make $300 to $400 million this year. Kokos's response was matter-of-fact agreement, and his implicit question was whether the expertise was even relevant. What he actually understood was not coal but that BP would want the coal and that companies would believe the claim, which was all he needed to know.

  • Deep domain expertise earned Shaan's father $100k-$200k a year over a thirty-year career.
  • Kokos earned $300-400 million in a single year knowing almost nothing about the material.
  • The valuable knowledge was about who wanted the asset and what they would believe, not the asset itself.
  • Kokos refused to test the coal on the grounds that the buyer would test it and testing only imported risk.
  • The encounter is the moment Shaan says reframed how he thought about where value actually sits.

I probably am like a top five expert of this one coal technology in the world. You know pretty much nothing about coal. Yet I've…

Shaan Puri · 08:00

I understand that BP will want my coal basically. I understand that companies will believe this thing. That's all I need to know.

Shaan Puri · 07:30
#leverage#expertise#value-capture#mindset
Takeaway15:30

Sell me this pen is a bad interview; here are two better filters

Shaan's Stripe interview was a 'sell me this software' role-play where the interviewer let him pick the product. Having never interviewed for a job before, he reached for Basecamp by 37signals because he thought it sounded impressive, had never used it, became pot committed, and fumbled. Both hosts think the format is a poor test. Sam's alternative has three parts: work out whether he enjoys being around the person, judge qualification purely from their track record, and call their old coworkers, leaving the interview itself to assess culture fit. Shaan relays a second filter from VC Kyle Samani, who accepts no resumes or reference calls and instead asks applicants to take one of the firm's existing blog posts and write a better one, on the logic that writing exposes thinking.

  • Shaan named a product he had never used and could not walk the bluff back.
  • Sam judges qualification from history and old coworkers, not from in-interview performance.
  • Sam uses the live conversation only to assess whether he enjoys the person and whether they fit.
  • Kyle Samani's filter: rewrite one of our blog posts better, no resume, no references.
  • The shared logic is that when you see someone write, you see how they think.

The best way I found interviewing someone is I just want to know if I enjoy being around you. And the only way I'm going…

Sam Parr · 17:00

Just take one of our existing blog posts and write it better. That's a really good initial filter cuz when you see someone write, you…

Shaan Puri · 17:30
#hiring#interviewing#filters#writing
Takeaway31:00

Correcting TechCrunch's inflated number, and why reputation beats the short-term edge

TechCrunch was covering a Monkey Inferno launch and had inflated a user number, roughly 200,000 instead of 20,000. Shaan was delighted and had no intention of correcting the record, reasoning it was on them. Michael Birch's instinct was the opposite: just correct it so it's the real number. The second instance came around VC commitments at Blab, where Birch said he would never fail to follow through even absent a contract, because Silicon Valley is a town where you play the game for thirty years with the same people and your reputation is worth more than any single self-advantageous move. Shaan's self-diagnosis is that his own lower integrity came not from being a bad person but from being short-term oriented and afraid of failing, and watching Birch let him adjust the dial and decide he simply would not lie or let convenient misperceptions stand.

  • TechCrunch overstated users tenfold and Shaan's instinct was to let it ride.
  • Birch's instinct was to correct it even though the truth was worse for them.
  • Birch honoured verbal commitments with VCs absent any contract.
  • The stated logic: a thirty-year repeated game with the same people makes reputation the larger asset.
  • Shaan traces his own lower integrity to short-term orientation and fear of failing, not to malice.

He's like, well, we should just correct it so it's the real number. And I was like, but then it's worse for us, right?

Shaan Puri · 32:00

This is a town where you play the game for like 30 years with the same people. And if you make a move that's self-advantageous…

Shaan Puri · 32:30
#integrity#reputation#long-term-games#leadership
Takeaway37:30

Selling because the ceiling was $20 million and he only owned 20 percent

Shaan modelled the youth e-sports business forward and concluded that if they executed really well and succeeded, it would reach maybe $10 to $20 million a year in revenue, possibly tens of millions, but never hundreds. The unit economics were plausible, since parents already pay around $99 for a child's soccer league, so charging would produce a real SaaS-like business. But he was six or seven years into Monkey Inferno with the same team, and he owned 20 percent rather than 100 percent. Sam's point is that at full ownership a similar ceiling could have produced Michael Birch-level wealth, but it was not structured that way. The combination of a capped outcome and a minority position is what triggered the decision to sell and shake things up.

  • Best-case modelled outcome was $10-20 million a year in revenue, never hundreds of millions.
  • Comparable pricing existed: parents pay roughly $99 per child per youth sports league.
  • Shaan owned 20 percent of the business, not the whole thing.
  • He was six or seven years in with the same team and same studio structure.
  • Sam's framing: the same ceiling at 100 percent ownership would have been genuinely life-changing wealth.

If we do this really well and we succeed at this, it'll get to maybe like 10 million a year, maybe 20 million a year…

Shaan Puri · 37:30

If you owned 100% of that, you could have made a maybe a similarish amount of wealth as Mike Birch. But it wasn't structured that…

Sam Parr · 38:00
#ceiling-analysis#ownership#exit-decision#cap-table

contrarian· 1

contrarian59:00

Buy boring businesses is bad advice if the business is also boring to you

Responding to the popular advice to buy and invest in boring businesses, both hosts push back. Shaan's reframe is that what you want is something boring to other people but not boring to you; if it is also boring to you, you have wasted your talent. The trigger is Shaan's own experience in Airbnb and real estate, which he initially thought was cool and now calls whack as an operator: the cycle times are too long, you build for eighteen to twenty-four months, and with a rental you cannot tell whether an idea is any good for three months. He is explicit that real estate is fine to invest in but poor for a creative person to operate, with no dopamine loop. Sam adds the social dimension, that he does not want to spend his time in conversations with someone who runs a dry cleaning company.

  • The useful version: boring to others, not boring to you.
  • If it is boring to you as well, you have wasted your talent.
  • Real estate and Airbnb failed for Shaan on cycle time, not on returns.
  • Feedback loops of 3 to 24 months are incompatible with how he works.
  • Real estate is good to invest in and poor to operate if you are a creative person.

What you want is something that's boring to other people, but not boring to you. If it's also boring to you, like, come on, you…

Shaan Puri · 59:30

I will come up with an idea and want to do something and you don't get results if you're building something for 18 months, 24…

Shaan Puri · 59:00
#boring-businesses#feedback-loops#real-estate#fit