MMy First Million
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Laird Hamilton09 August 2023

Laird Hamilton: The Big Wave Surfer Who Built a +$10 Million Business Empire

5Frameworks
12Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Explainer· 1

Explainer33:00

Why the pool training is free, and why the tribe is the real product

Pro athletes from football and basketball come to Hamilton's pool, often in the off-season or coming out of injury, sent by coaches and physios. He refuses to charge them, because charging changes the dynamic and he prefers being able to reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. He has the luxury to do this because he earns a living other ways, and it produces a better environment. Training runs on a rhythm: lifting and dry land work Monday, Wednesday and Friday, pool work Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. He argues the most important piece is the community itself, and attributes much of CrossFit's success to tribe and like-minded people rather than to the workout, noting that on a flat day someone else being ready to go is what gets you going.

  • Pro athletes come free; charging would change the dynamic and the right to refuse.
  • He can afford not to charge because income comes from elsewhere.
  • Lifting and dry land Monday, Wednesday, Friday; pool work Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday.
  • The community is the most important component, not the workout.
  • CrossFit's success is attributed largely to tribe rather than to the training itself.

if you charge people then it's the the dynamic changes

Laird Hamilton · 33:00

We're all looking for a little tribe to belong to.

Laird Hamilton · 35:00

that was part of the success of something like CrossFit that it was really had less to do with the work work out itself as…

Laird Hamilton · 35:30
#community#xpt#training#business-model

Story· 6

Story05:30

Following the money into apparel and apprenticing in a downtown LA sweatshop

At 18 or 19 Hamilton worked out where the money actually was in surfing and concluded it was in the apparel business, so he went and got exposed to it directly. He worked in a downtown Los Angeles sweatshop run by a Korean immigrant, Mr. Chun, who had arrived in America with $38 in his pocket and built a $10 sweatshop business making denim jeans. Hamilton learned the whole cut-and-sew garment business there, including the stone-washing operation using pumice in big tumbling washers, producing Guess and Green Line jackets sewn together from old Levi's. Because he never entered the conventional surfing tour and instead focused on big wave riding, there was no NBA-style platform behind him, so he and Gabby had to be more entrepreneurial from the start.

  • Identified apparel as where the money in surfing sat, then went to learn it hands-on at 18 or 19.
  • Apprenticed under Mr. Chun, a Korean immigrant who started with $38 and a $10 sweatshop business.
  • Learned the full cut-and-sew and stone-wash process behind Guess and Green Line jackets.
  • Big wave surfing and Gabby's volleyball were niche sports with no built-in athlete platform.
  • The absence of a platform forced both of them to be creative and entrepreneurial early.

I looked at like you know where the money was like where's the money in surfing

Laird Hamilton · 05:30

learning from a Korean guy that came to America with $38 in his pocket

Laird Hamilton · 06:00

just because we were in such niche sports that it forced us to be a little bit more entrepreneurial in general.

Laird Hamilton · 07:30
#apparel#apprenticeship#niche-sports#early-career
Story11:30

Taking Laird Superfood public, the crash, and why he has no regrets

Laird Superfood went public at roughly a $400 million market cap on about $40 million a year in sales, and the stock has since been crushed, with the company changing CEOs. Sam asks whether Hamilton regrets the IPO given a substantial part of his net worth was tied up in the stock value. Hamilton says he would not change a bit of it, dismissing paper stock value as counting chickens before they hatch, and points instead to what the process taught him: the roadshow, 90 one-hour Zooms across a three-week period, all day every day, an experience nobody can convey to you second-hand. He relays advice from a woman judge friend from the South to invest in experiences, on the grounds that experiences are the only thing you may take with you when you die.

  • IPO'd at around a $400 million market cap on roughly $40 million of annual sales.
  • Stock subsequently crushed and the CEO replaced; a substantial part of his net worth was in the stock.
  • The roadshow was 90 one-hour Zooms over three weeks, all day every day.
  • He treats the experience itself, not the paper value, as the durable asset.
  • Frames the down period as the refining and polishing phase rather than a failure.

I wouldn't change a bit of it.

Laird Hamilton · 12:00

doing the road show, doing 90 Zoom 1-hour Zooms

Laird Hamilton · 13:30

Invest in experiences.

Laird Hamilton · 14:30
#ipo#public-markets#resilience#laird-superfood
Story17:30

Laird Superfood started online for 20 to 30 grand

The business began with Hamilton mixing turmeric and other ingredients at home with scales and zip-lock bags, producing a powdered version of his original recipe and iterating to a third or fourth rendition. Total capital to get store-ready was at most somewhere around 20 to 30 grand, kept low because they went online first rather than into retail. First-year sales were somewhere around 50 to 100 grand, marching quickly to roughly 100 to 150 within about a year. He partnered with Paul Hodge, a startup operator he had already worked with on the golf board project. Crucially, he could tap an existing group of friends and followers, and that early customer base was highly interactive, telling them which flavours worked and which did not.

  • At most 20 to 30 grand of capital to get to a store-ready product.
  • Online-first rather than retail-first, which is why it cost so little to start.
  • Roughly 50 to 100 grand of first-year sales, reaching 100 to 150 within about a year.
  • Partnered with Paul Hodge, already a collaborator on the golf board project.
  • An engaged early customer group actively refined the flavour lineup for them.

could have been couple 20, 30 grand or something like that at the most

Laird Hamilton · 18:00

That's why it was really not didn't cost us much to start.

Laird Hamilton · 18:00

that we had customers that were kind of more engaged with helping us kind of refine things.

Laird Hamilton · 20:00
#startup#dtc#bootstrapping#product-market-fit
Story28:00

Mr. Chun's good times, bad times wisdom

Working in the downtown LA garment factory, Hamilton would deliberately sit with the owner, Mr. Chun, trying to extract wisdom from him. Chun drank Millers, which Hamilton calls the worst beer ever, and one day delivered the line Hamilton has carried since: when good times are here do not be too happy, because after good times bad times come, and when bad times are here do not be too sad, because after bad times good times come again. Hamilton acknowledges the obvious objection that taken literally it would make you numb to everything, but maintains there is real wisdom in it. The principle underpins his composure through the Laird Superfood stock collapse.

  • Hamilton deliberately sat with the factory owner to mine him for wisdom.
  • The rule: do not be too happy in good times, do not be too sad in bad times.
  • Hamilton notes the counter-argument that taken to an extreme it makes you numb.
  • The saying is the emotional discipline behind his response to the stock crash.
  • Learned in the same environment where he learned cut-and-sew manufacturing.

I want to pick some wisdom out of this guy.

Laird Hamilton · 28:00

when good times here, don't be too happy cuz after good time, bad time comes.

Laird Hamilton · 28:30
#mentorship#equanimity#cycles
Story29:00

The Malibu house, bought cheap 25 years ago, and why location is everything

Hamilton and Gabby have owned the Malibu house for 25 to 26 years, bought at a price he calls cheap for Malibu, though it was a big purchase at the time. He notes that Malibu property worth a million dollars 25 years ago is worth around 25 million today. The house had been built by a Greek engineer for his own family, who divorced during the build, which Hamilton observes happens a lot because building houses is very stressful. He decided from across the street without going inside, because he could see the ocean and the specific wave he loves to surf, and says he would have been happy in a tent on that spot. The lesson he draws is that you can always change or rebuild a house but you cannot change where it is.

  • Owned 25 to 26 years, cheap for Malibu but a big purchase at the time.
  • A million-dollar Malibu property from 25 years ago is worth around 25 million now.
  • Built by a Greek engineer for his own family who divorced mid-build.
  • Hamilton decided from across the street without entering the house.
  • Location is the only variable you can never renovate.

it was cheap for Malibu, crazy, but we've been here for 25 years

Laird Hamilton · 29:30

I mean, you can always change the house, you can rebuild the house, but you can't change where it is.

Laird Hamilton · 31:30
#real-estate#malibu#location#asset-selection
Story44:30

Fifteen years sober, and the self-honesty test that got him there

Hamilton had two French habits picked up over twenty years working with a French company: espresso and Pinot Noir, and admits a general tendency toward excess. His drinking problem was wine specifically rather than hard liquor. The turning point was a test he set himself off his mother's line that if you cannot be true to yourself you cannot be true to anyone else: if he claimed he could stop drinking any time and then drank the next day, week or month, he did not actually have power over it. He is fifteen years sober at the time of the episode, with Sam at ten. He also describes having used the guilt from drinking as training motivation, waking at 5am to train hungover, and frames the whole thing as continuing to polish the stone.

  • Two French habits from twenty years with a French company: espresso and Pinot Noir.
  • His problem was wine specifically, not hard booze.
  • The test: claim you can stop any time, then see whether you drink anyway.
  • Fifteen years sober at the time of recording; Sam is ten years sober.
  • Previously used drinking guilt as fuel to train hungover at 5am.

I always say I come from a long line of alcoholics but we all do.

Laird Hamilton · 45:00

If I say hey, I can stop drinking anytime and then the next day I drank or the next week or the or the next…

Laird Hamilton · 45:30

let's just try to let's try to continue to to to polish the stone.

Laird Hamilton · 48:00
#sobriety#self-honesty#discipline#refinement

Takeaway· 2

Takeaway08:30

Becoming your own sponsor and the authenticity filter on endorsements

Hamilton describes the arc of an athlete's career as evolving toward wanting to be your own sponsor rather than renting your name out. He and Gabby have been deliberately selective, refusing to endorse or promote anything purely for money, which he credits as a contributor to their longevity even though it has also cost them opportunities. The specific filter is authenticity: they only take on things that are real to them and reflect who they are. He cites refusing energy drinks and other products that simply are not good for people, and names Laird Superfood, XPT and Laird Apparel as the things that pass the filter. He frames the selectivity as a responsibility, since people look up to him because of his surfing and innovations.

  • Athletes evolve toward becoming their own sponsor rather than endorsing others.
  • Refusing to promote anything just for money is credited with their career longevity.
  • The filter is authenticity: only things that are real to them and reflect who they are.
  • Turned down energy drinks and similar products that are not good for people.
  • Still runs sponsorships with Land Rover and Bremont watches alongside the owned brands.

we've been pretty cautious about things that reflect our authenticity, things that are real to us.

Laird Hamilton · 08:30

energy drinks and other stuff that just isn't good for you.

Laird Hamilton · 09:00
#brand#endorsements#authenticity#longevity
Takeaway57:00

How he handles personal finances across five businesses without getting caged by them

Sam asks how Hamilton maps personal finances across Laird Superfood, XPT, Laird Apparel, a farming project, sponsorships and real estate. Hamilton's answer is delegation: a woman he has worked with for a very long time handles accounting and finance management because she is genuinely interested in and good at it. He argues finance is a consuming hole you can be swallowed into and lose connection with everything else, and that how much control you believe you have is itself a philosophical choice. Having watched a lot of extreme wealth up close, including people who had nothing and got everything and people who had everything and lost it, he describes a level of imprisonment that comes with it. His mother's line frames it: the way God punishes you is he gives you what you ask for, because the big house comes with everything to maintain and break.

  • Delegates accounting and finance management to a long-term specialist.
  • Treats finance as a consuming hole that can swallow your attention entirely.
  • Has watched people go from nothing to everything and from everything to nothing.
  • Describes a level of imprisonment that accompanies accumulated wealth.
  • His mother's warning: be careful what you ask for, because the thing brings its own burden.

I have s- smarter people at that than me.

Laird Hamilton · 57:30

there's a level of imprisonment that happens

Laird Hamilton · 1:00:00

he gives you what you ask for. So, be careful what you ask for

Laird Hamilton · 1:02:30
#personal-finance#delegation#wealth#faith

contrarian· 2

contrarian38:00

Comparison versus competition, and what happens after the grudge pays off

Hamilton's coaching approach is to have people find their own barriers and lift those, explicitly not using other people as a reference, because comparison is where people get into trouble. Sam pushes back hard on the comparison-is-the-thief-of-joy line, distinguishing comparing from competing and arguing that a grudge from a high-school ex-girlfriend fuels everything he does, calling rage the greatest fuel on Earth. Hamilton says he can relate and that a lot of what he has done came from that same place, but names the trap on the far side: once you achieve the thing and prove your point, you are left asking now what, and have to either manufacture a new grudge or learn to generate motivation from success or contentment instead. He describes himself as such a vicious competitor that he can barely compete and has to vent it constructively.

  • The training approach is to raise your own barrier, not to reference other people.
  • Sam distinguishes comparing from competing and defends grudge as fuel.
  • Hamilton agrees the grudge works, then names the now-what problem after it pays off.
  • The alternative is generating motivation from success or contentment.
  • He describes himself as so vicious a competitor that he must vent it constructively.

our approach is more about you finding your own barriers and then trying to lift those up

Laird Hamilton · 38:00

Rage is the greatest fuel on Earth.

Sam Parr · 39:00

Then at some point you achieve the thing you're trying to do, you prove your point

Laird Hamilton · 39:30
#motivation#competition#comparison#drive
contrarian48:30

On Bryan Johnson: you cannot hack your way around biology

Sam raises Bryan Johnson's Blueprint project, in which Johnson spends millions to become the most tested person on Earth and tries to reduce his biological age faster than his chronological age, eating the same three blended things every day with calories measured precisely. Gabby had already interviewed Johnson at his house and eaten the blended nutty pudding. Hamilton's objection is mechanical rather than dismissive: chewing food creates saliva and enzymes that go down with the food to help digest it, and eating one thing alone every day all day is one of the surest ways to develop an allergy to it. His stated position is that you cannot hack your way around biology, though hacking can support the work, and that diversity is one of the most important things in a diet.

  • Johnson eats the same measured items daily to slow biological ageing, documented on Blueprint.
  • Gabby interviewed him at his house and ate the blended nutty pudding.
  • Chewing produces saliva and enzymes that travel with the food to aid digestion.
  • Eating one thing alone every day is a fast route to developing an allergy to it.
  • Hacking can support the work but cannot replace biology; diversity is the priority.

if you really want to become like allergic or have a an allergy against something, is just eat that alone every day all day

Laird Hamilton · 51:00

you can't hack your way around biology

Laird Hamilton · 51:00

I think in the diet, one of the most important things is diversity.

Laird Hamilton · 51:30
#biohacking#longevity#nutrition#bryan-johnson

resource· 1

resource1:03:30

Being more savage in 2023, and the books both men recommend

Gabby had asked Hamilton at the end of 2022 what his 2023 goal was and he said he wanted to be more of a savage. Over halfway through the year he reports the savage material has come from the environment rather than from deliberate pursuit: fighting the Malibu fire for four or five hours with a suit and pump, then rescuing people off rooftops by boat during a flood in Hawaii, plus a trip to Peru. He notes he had asked for action before both events, tying back to his mother's warning about clarity in what you ask for, and plans to hunt moose in September to fill the freezers. On books, Hamilton lists Life After Life by Moody, Embrace Fearlessly the Burning World by Barry Lopez, The Psychology of Totalitarianism and The Trap. Sam counters with three savage books: The Wager, In the Heart of the Sea and Undaunted Courage.

  • His 2023 goal, stated to Gabby, was to be more of a savage.
  • Fought the Malibu fire for four or five hours with a suit and pump, then rescued flood victims in Hawaii.
  • Both events followed him asking for action, reinforcing be careful what you ask for.
  • Plans to hunt moose in September to fill the freezers for winter.
  • Sam recommends The Wager, In the Heart of the Sea and Undaunted Courage; Hamilton knows Dan Carlin personally.

I listen to a lot of books

Laird Hamilton · 1:06:30

there was a book called Life After Life

Laird Hamilton · 1:07:00

The last one was called Undaunted Courage and it's about the story of Lewis and Clark.

Sam Parr · 1:09:30
#books#goals#hardship#reading